5 speed swap input

#1
So my transmission overheated twice and burnt the fluid up in Harlan on the trip so when I got back I dropped the pan and changed the filter to inspect the fluid and the trans seemed to be pulling weak. I believe it's fried, after changing the fluid the trans will wind out to 3500-4000 rpm in each gear and sometimes not even change. After a couple days of this it now will do the same thing but I feel no difference in power from 1500 rpm to 3500.

So I've been discussing my options with some guys and researching on pirate and I believe I'm gonna be doing a 5 speed swap here in the next month or so. Going to be a long project but need to start accumulating some parts. My two options it seems are an NV3500 which would be cheaper, easier to find, but only rated for 300 ft lbs of torque or the bigger NV4500 which is rated for my motor, but far more expensive and an actual bigger transmission so fitment seems to be a little more of an issue. I know the starter is located on the driverside versus the passenger on these trans but I believe that won't be an issue, some custom header fab can be done if needed. Also have the option of the NV3550 from the 2000+ cherokee and TJ. Not sure if it bolts up to the 5.9 block but the bellhousing is removable so finding one that can wouldn't be an issue. Any input and advice on any part of this swap would be appreciated as I have never really worked with manual trannys so most of this will be a learning experience. I believe I can use the pedal assembly out of a cherokee and the slave cylinder from a TJ or XJ would work with the dodge transmission. Also I believe I will be keeping my 231 with SYE and using that if at all possible. I'm not sure what the output spline count is for the NV3500 or NV4500. I really would like to find a dodge truck with a blown motor or rear end collision and buy the whole truck so I have everything I would need.


Also if anyone has some leads on parts holler at your boy. Ill probably be using this thread for any questions I have along the way.
 
#2
A 5.9 ZJ 5speed? Oh my!

I'm not sure 100% but i feel like i've heard that the ax15 was a little bit better tranny then the nv3500 and they are easier to find. I've seen guys on pirate with 5.3s run the ax15 and nv3500 with great success so i would think it would be alright for you. Nv4500 is a big betch.
 
#4
a 5spd 5.9 would be cool. but like steve said the 4500 is big most vehicles (like early broncos) that have kits available for a swap have to move alotta stuff, the 3500 isnt as strong neither is the ax15 but it would be easier to work. if you want just an auto rebuild i can get you a deal next semester
 
#6
Im all ears on this and will gladly help track down some info on it. Im swapping in an ax15 in my TJ right now since I've pulled the auto. Im wanting to go with a 5 spped for the same reasons. The ax15 is arguably stronger than the nv3550, and the nv4500 would be awesome for its gearing. Keep us updated. Check out a thread on pirate by agitated pancake in the cherokee section where he did a 5 speed swap into a 4.7 WJ. Great tech.
 
#7
Im all ears on this and will gladly help track down some info on it. Im swapping in an ax15 in my TJ right now since I've pulled the auto. Im wanting to go with a 5 spped for the same reasons. The ax15 is arguably stronger than the nv3550, and the nv4500 would be awesome for its gearing. Keep us updated. Check out a thread on pirate by agitated pancake in the cherokee section where he did a 5 speed swap into a 4.7 WJ. Great tech.
Ohh yeah me and the pancake talk regularly on mallcrawlin, his build is full of awesome tech. Hopefully it's done by then Brooks. I'm still not against putting an auto back in it if I can get a rebuild for cheap, but if I have to pay $1400 for one, I might as well do the 5 spd. John whats this deal you speak of?
 
#8
Ohh yeah me and the pancake talk regularly on mallcrawlin, his build is full of awesome tech. Hopefully it's done by then Brooks. I'm still not against putting an auto back in it if I can get a rebuild for cheap, but if I have to pay $1400 for one, I might as well do the 5 spd. John whats this deal you speak of?
sucks that you just had the other one rebuilt in the green jeep..
 
#10
Your best source for info is probably going to be dodge related since your 5.9 is common to that. Its not often I see a 23 spline dodge 4500 for sale cheap. I think for long term youde be better off doing that. You have an advantage considering your wheelbase for doing that swap. In my TJ, as much as id love to have a 4500, its not near as much room available so im sort of stuck using an ax15 or 435, 420, 465, etc.. finding a wrecked fs truck is going to be your best bet. Ill keep a look out.
 
#11
What's the trans in it now?

If your looking for a beater to get you around I may know of a 4dr metro for sale on the cheap.
Its got the 46re in it now. Honestly Steve I may be interested. I need a daily driver that's good on gas. My Gf has her 2500 that I can use whenever but that's not so gas friendly haha. I haven't looked at the ax15 to much before. Looked at novak and doesn't say anything about mating to a 318 or 360 but think ill email them and ask a few questions.
And JR I appreciate the help.
 
#12
Maybe look at older Dodge Ram pickups that came with the V8. I know they came from the factory with a NV3500 (well I know you could get a Dodge 1500 with a V8 and a 5 speed manual, Buddy Spencer had one back in the day, wiki tells me its a NV3500). That might be what you need and might have the "bolt right up" capability which would be awesome.
 
#14
i can rebuild a trans in auto shop for parts only, it would have to take a ride to rockhill hill tho
I really might be interested in this. Would you guys want the whole Jeep or me to pull the trans and bring it up there? I need to start pricing parts and see where I am money wise and whether swapping the 5 speed would be worth it versus rebuilding the auto.
 
#18
After having my 4runner in auto and fj in a manual I would fully recomend the auto for the trail given your options. Unless you could get in the neighborhood of 70:1 crawl ratio you are going to do alot of rolling around and probably scoring more bd. I love the stick in my cruiser but 40 to 1 wasn't low enough for 35s and I did not have the control I wanted. Going with the sm465 and dana 300 ought to solve that. In the runner with the auto and decent gearing I have great vehical control I wouldn't have with a stick. If money were not an option I would like a stick and a geared lefty case....but unfortunatly it is. Unless you have the money to run the 5speed you want just rebuild the auto. However a 5speed you 5.9 on the street and slick stuff would probably paste a big smile on your face.
 
#19
The transmission re-install is one of the most critical parts of the process. They'll need the whole vehicle unless they REALLY trust you.
Yep makes sense. I had no problem pulling it but if I don't have to I guess that's a plus. John I'm looking up performance rebuilds at the moment. If you want to ask your teacher if he has a place he gets his parts from that'd be good too. Let me know what he says.



After having my 4runner in auto and fj in a manual I would fully recomend the auto for the trail given your options. Unless you could get in the neighborhood of 70:1 crawl ratio you are going to do alot of rolling around and probably scoring more bd. I love the stick in my cruiser but 40 to 1 wasn't low enough for 35s and I did not have the control I wanted. Going with the sm465 and dana 300 ought to solve that. In the runner with the auto and decent gearing I have great vehical control I wouldn't have with a stick. If money were not an option I would like a stick and a geared lefty case....but unfortunatly it is. Unless you have the money to run the 5speed you want just rebuild the auto. However a 5speed you 5.9 on the street and slick stuff would probably paste a big smile on your face.
After more discussion that's what I've been hearing. I'm not to concerned about the body damage more than I am getting on a steep off camber and rolling around and flopping. A 5 spd in the street would be hell of a lot of fun. The fact that i could always roast tires with my stock auto probably contributed to its death haha.
 
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#20
Yeah there have definitely been some things i havent attempted because of poor crawl ratio. After a stretch and some low gearing im ready to try some cooler stuff. There has been somethings I have been more brave in my poor 4runner on simply because I know it wont stall and roll back.
 
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